Does Oracle support Open VMS
Rik King
Database Administrator
On behalf of the International Oracle Users Group-Americas VMS User Group
During the International Oracle Users Group-Americas conference in Denver, April 11-15, the VMS user group met and raised the question "what is the future of Oracle on VMS". There was much confusion, various participants had heard different rumors. It was decided that we would get a more concise answer if one representative were chosen to contact Compaq and Oracle on behalf of the International Oracle Users Group-Americas VMS user group. That contact would then post those findings to the VMS user group web site. No one immediately volunteered for the job, since the issue is something I had to deal with anyway I agreed to report my findings.
I began my search for information with Compaq via a telephone conversation with Mr. Steve Stebulis, who works at the Nashua, New Hampshire offices. I outlined the issues, as we had discussed them at the user group meeting, to Mr. Stebulis.
I raised the following issues:
Releases that come late or never
The lack of information about what will be released on VMS (and when)
Receiving Oracle desupport notices for products that have not yet shipped for VMS
Oracle customers leaving VMS in large numbers
Oracle recommending to customers that they move from VMS to UNIX
Based on the user group meeting discussions, I went so far as to predict that the rest of the VMS users would leave if they did not see the indicators that VMS/Oracle had a future. I let him know that for many clients this would be the last query into the viability of staying with VMS/Oracle. I told him I believed that Compaq had a short window in which to make changes because of year 2000 concerns. I told Mr. Stebulis that short of Compaq showing me that meaningful things where and had changed (I suggested several things that would allay my concerns) that my report would be negative, to the point of recommending to VMS customers that it was time to switch operating systems. I further suggested that many customers might hesitate using Compaq hardware because of the way the relationship between Oracle and VMS had been mismanaged. In every way I tried to help Mr. Stebulis see the importance of my search and report. Mr. Stebulis quickly realized I needed to meet with the Oracle Relationship Manager at Compaq, Alan Belancik, and indicated he would work with Mr. Belancik to set that up that meeting. After waiting two weeks for a contact from Mr. Belancik I again contacted Mr. Stebulis.
Mr. Stebulis was finally successful in getting Mr. Belancik to contact me. I ran through the dialog of Oracle/VMS problems with Mr. Belancik. I again stated that my report would reflect negatively the viability of using Oracle/VMS unless I was given hard evidence that Compaq was committed to an ongoing Oracle/VMS relation. I indicated that Compaq could not just begin to change and make everything ok, they needed to take extra-ordinary steps to stop the landslide away from VMS. I suggested that customers needed, to see ads, to be contacted personally, and to see that Compaq was selling VMS to new Oracle/VMS customers. I further stated that customers needed to see the same level of commitment from Oracle. I gave Mr. Belancik an email letter that Dartmouth College had received from Oracle, stating that Oracle Applications would not be supported on VMS in the next release and that Oracle has been discussing leaving VMS with their customers. I talked with him of a meeting I had recently attended with a vendor (one with many VMS clients) where the vendor discussed how busy they were helping their customers move from VMS to UNIX. I mentioned the size of the VMS user group for the International Oracle Users Group-Americas3, and how many Oracle/VMS clients there really are. Mr. Belancik admitted that all that I said was true. In tried to insure that Mr. Belancik understood the importance of my search and the report I would submit to the IOUG. At this point Mr. Belancik decided it would be best if we were to have a face to face, in which he could respond to my issues. A meeting was set in Nashua, New Hampshire at Mr. Belancik¹s office.
So on June 25th, I traveled two hours to meet with Mr. Belancik only to find Mr. Belancik not there. During the next hour or so I visited with two other Compaq employees, Mr. Stebulis, and Rod Gorman. Neither had planned on being in the meeting with Mr. Belancik, both did their best to cover for him, but they had little or no information. I again ran through my now rehearsed monologue of problems, predictions, needs, and the gravity of the situation. I was given many of the same promises we have been hearing for the last 5 years (none of which were in writing). I left Compaq with the promise that Mr. Belancik would get back to me at the beginning of the next week, and that he would give me the full details for my report to the IOUG VMS user group.
To date I have still heard nothing from Mr. Belancik, or Compaq. I take their lack of response as a further indication of Compaq¹s commitment to Oracle/VMS. The information I have found comes from several sources.
David Schwab - VMS product manager / Platforms Tech. Division at Oracle dschwab@us.oracle.com
I find nothing new in what Compaq and Oracle are saying about Oracle/VMS. The contents of the letter, web pages, and symposium sessions appear to me to be more of what VMS customers have been hearing for the last several years. What we are not hearing from Compaq/Oracle now rings much louder than the rhetoric we do.
What we are not hearing from Compaq/Oracle is that:
Oracle/Compaq will push VMS so that support on Oracle¹s suite of application tools on VMS is profitable,
Compaq has any intent of sponsoring a new ad campaign focusing on VMS/Oracle,
Advertised bench marks on VMS/Oracle showing its price performance,
An iron clad, cross your heart, money back guarantee that Oracle/VMS will release on time and consistent with other server platforms,
Clear notification of release dates, and intent
I have been using VMS for more than 15 years. I have been using Oracle on VMS for most of those years. I like VMS, I believe it has served the institutions I have worked for well. I have never felt that recommending VMS was ill advised, until now.
The most concise statement I can make to sum up my report is this: on July 29, 1999 I will go to a planning meeting in which I will recommend that the institution I work for begin the process of moving to UNIX. I will further recommend that we use a UNIX vendor that has managed well their relationship with Oracle.
On July 29 after having sent Oracle, and Compaq the information contained in this report. I received an invitation to participate in phone conference regarding VMS/Oracle with Richard Marcello, VP OpenVMS Systems Group Compaq, and Jerry Robertson, VP Compaq Platform Solutions Oracle4. When the conference ended, I had heard nothing to indicate that my previous assessment that VMS/Oracle not a going concern was wrong5.
Footnotes:
1)
--- Forwarded Message from "Bruce Levick" <BLEVICK@us.oracle.com> ---
>Date: 24 May 99 13:20:16 -0700
>From: "Bruce Levick" <BLEVICK@us.oracle.com>
>To: william.f.barry@Dartmouth.EDU
>Subject: DEC Open VMS
>Cc: THAMEL@us.oracle.com, paul.zaslaw@Dartmouth.EDU, JMACDOUG@us.oracle.com
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.2.1.3.1)
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill, John tells me you had some questions related to Open VMS.
Release 10.7 was the last release of our core applications that was ported to Open VMS. Human Resources and Payroll are available for Release 10.7NCA with DEC (Compaq) Alpha Open VMS on the database server only-not on the application server. Labor Distribution is not and will not be ported to Open VMS.
We would highly recommend that you begin the new implementation of these applications with the same release that we demoed-Release 11. Release 11 Human Resources, Payroll, Self Service and Labor Distribution are all available on COMPAQ Tru64 (DEC) Unix as well as other platforms like SUN, IBM RS/6000, HP and NT.
I know we've discussed that eventually you would need to move off the VMS platform, it looks like this is the time to do that.
______________________________________
Bruce Levick, CPA
Higher Education-Application Solution Manager
Office/ Fax: 978-546-8091
Cell: 617-901-0729
Email: blevick@us.oracle.com
ORACLE
4 Gull Cove Lane http://www.oracle.com
Rockport, MA 01966
______________________________________
2)
Platforms Tech. Division is the group that takes the Solaris code and ports it to all the other platforms. There are 30 - 40 non-Solaris platforms. VMS is in the top 6.
Oracle is increasing resources for VMS. They have hired $1.6 million of contractors for '98 and $2.3 million for '99.
Oracle's goal is to release VMS version 90 days after Solaris version. Target is 8.1.7 for July 2000.
Schwab described the past problems with releases. In the past the Platforms Tech. has gotten the Solaris code and the make files and has had to go through the make files and handcraft the VMS release. They are changing this.
Their goal is to automate the conversion of the Solaris code and to do any VMS specific modifications in parallel with the Solaris development. They intend to take the Solaris code each day (or week he could not remember) and build a VMS version. Then fix things that broke from the current Solaris changes and do any other modifications that are needed.
Parallel server should be ready in Oracle 8.0.5.1 in July 99 - VMS 7.2. This is a re-release of 8.0.5. Schwab said that 8.0.8.1 depends on new cluster interconnect and may not meet the July 99 date so they may roll in 8.0.5.2 stuff in the next release.
Oracle applications release 11 in August 99.
Oracle is looking at the revenue for each platforms and platforms products. The VMS Oracle applications are not producing enough income. Oracle will stop new releases for applications sometime in the future. Oracle will be recommending moving the applications to another platform. VMS group is working with the license group to make the license transfer free. The database does not have to be moved.
Alan Belancik said he was willing to come and talk to anyone or group about the commitments that Compaq and Oracle have made to VMS.
3)
Matt Reagan reported at the user group meetings in Denver that the VMS special interest group was still the largest operating system user group and had hundreds of users.
4)
What they said, from the phone conversation with Richard Marcello Compaq and Jerry Robertson Oracle.
There is no financial incentive for Oracle to support more than the database on VMS, the customer base is not there.
Oracle Applications version 11 will be supported for the next two years, all applications, except Jerry was not sure about indirect cost, hr, ectŠ, (Dartmouth College is being told are not supported).
By the end of the year Oracle will have shortened the window of release dates.
Compaq will not advertise Oracle/VMS because of where VMS is in its life cycle. They would rather talk to their clients individually.
Compaq has a five year plan to support and upgrade VMS. They are positioning it to be a strong database platform nothing more.
They claim to have new VMS/Oracle clients. They do not acknowledge that there is a landslide from VMS to UNIX.
Compaq claims to have polled customers and that customers are supportive of not having more Oracle products on VMS and of running applications on UNIX.
They believe the solution of having database on one platform, and application code on another is advantageous (they were unable to explain why this was an advantage to me).
They claim 50% of the Alpha boxes in the world run VMS.
They are willing to do an internet video presentation on where VMS is and why, Oracle will join in the presentation. They will let us know when its to be held, stay tuned.
5)
What I heard, from the phone conversation with Richard Marcello - Compaq and Jerry Robertson Oracle.
Oracle is not willing to support their applications on VMS not enough interest. Compaq is not willing to push the issue.
Oracle did not explain how the release window was to be shortened. That promise sounded like the same promise we have heard in the past. As of August 13th, Oracle Applications still has no projected date for releasing the inter-operability patch required for Oracle 7.3.4. Clients checking on the patch seem to not be able to find out who might even know enough to project a date.
I could find no logic in Richard¹s statement that Compaq was not willing to spend money on advertising VMS/Oracle because it was better to talk to clients individually.
Compaq is not willing to drum up new business for Oracle/VMS because VMS is too old to spend serious money on. If Oracle Applications do not run on VMS then clients running Oracle Applications will tend to move to another operating system. I can find no advantage of running VMS for the database and UNIX or NT for the oracle applications. Compaq is happy to treat VMS as a cash cow.
Richard was to have sent me the slides for the video presentation by August 10th. Today, August 13th, I still have received nothing from him.
If Compaq is not willing to push VMS, Oracle is not willing to invest in it. So Oracle will support VMS a little longer, and maybe better, but only for the database engine. Compaq will support VMS longer, but will not push it.
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